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Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

  • 1.  Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 08-29-2024 01:27 PM

    I'd like to start our first working sub-group on vertical accuracy. I presented today on a user focused, simplification practice approach to supporting the much requested data validation practice request, specifically towards the vertical component. It seems everyone is in agreement that the role ASPRS plays here is to support the profession by addressing the vertical accuracy concerns ,at first, in a concise and digestible fashion. I presented the wiki, https://github.com/ASPRSorg/BWG/wiki, as a place this information, once publicly reviewed, will live until the practice has reached a point where they are promoted to an addendum to the other ASPRS Guidelines. Thanks to all that attended. I look forward to learning from users and other professionals on this specific effort.  

    Please comment to this thread if you would like to join the group and hopefully we could meet at the end of September to discuss needs, goals, and timelines for working. If you aren't well know to the bathy lidar world, please feel free to share a little info about your specific interest in this topic, vertical uncertainty/calibration/processing practices.



    ------------------------------
    Nicholas Johnson
    Physical Scientist
    USACE
    Kiln MS
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 08-29-2024 01:29 PM

    I'm happy to contribute.



    ------------------------------
    Danial Mariampillai
    NRCan
    Victoria BC
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 08-30-2024 09:15 AM

    Hi Nick,

    Count me in, happy to meet in September.



    ------------------------------
    Malcolm Elliott
    Fugro
    m.elliott@fugro.com
    Dartmouth NS
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 08-30-2024 08:46 AM

    Thanks Nick and the working group on pushing this important topic forward. The ASPRS standards committee will be looking forward to a final draft for a new addendum "Best Practices and Guidelines in Bathymetric Mapping". 



    ------------------------------
    Qassim Abdullah
    VP & Chief Scientist
    Woolpert, Inc.
    Brunswick MD
    (301) 346-7360
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 08-30-2024 08:50 AM

    Nick,

    I am not getting to any wiki page form the link you sent. Here is what I get on GitHub:



    ------------------------------
    Qassim Abdullah
    VP & Chief Scientist
    Woolpert, Inc.
    Brunswick MD
    (301) 346-7360
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 08-30-2024 09:52 AM

    Hi Qassim, 

    I think a comma go attached to the address in Nick's original post. You should be able to access the wiki from here:

    https://github.com/ASPRSorg/BWG/wiki

    Danial



    ------------------------------
    Danial Mariampillai
    NRCan
    Victoria BC
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 08-31-2024 06:53 PM
    Got it alright!





  • 8.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 09-03-2024 12:09 PM

    Thanks, that did the trick.



    ------------------------------
    Qassim Abdullah
    VP & Chief Scientist
    Woolpert, Inc.
    Dayton OH
    (301) 346-7360
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 08-30-2024 09:13 AM

    Hi Nick, I don't know how much use I'll be (or if my availability will work out) but I'd like to at least stay in the loop. I'm hoping Danielson, Minsu and/or Jeff Irwin would provide technical support for us.



    ------------------------------
    Jason Stoker
    U.S. Geological Survey
    Fort Collins CO
    (970) 817-0231
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 08-31-2024 02:16 PM

    Hi Nick:  While I might be the thorn-in-the-side to this auspicious group, I am also happy to help ... Al



    ------------------------------
    Alvan Karlin
    University Of Tampa
    Tampa FL
    (813) 972-3531
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 09-01-2024 02:01 PM

    Hi Nick,

    I would like to engage with the group on this topic. My name is Nicholas Enwright. I am a Research Geographer at the U.S. Geological Survey's Wetland and Aquatic Research Center. My research program has been exploring wetland elevation error in lidar-based DEMs. Is this something that will be relevant, or will the group be more focused on the bathy side of topobathy lidar? Thanks!


    Best regards,



    ------------------------------
    Nicholas Enwright
    U.S. Geological Survey
    Lafayette LA
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 09-03-2024 06:53 PM

    Looking at 10am central on the 24th and 26th of Sept. Just opened the conversation with ASPRS on the best way to manage the meetings of sub-groups. Stay tuned.

    Let's use this page to exchange ideas until then!

    What are people looking for exactly?
    -Recommended items to be in a calibration report? 
    -Methods for different collects for data validation? How different is this from acoustic collects?
    -Tpu validation practices? How different is this from system validation? What limitations do we have?

    How often does this group need to meet? I was thinking every other week.
    -Depends on short and long terms goals / support.
    -Do we split and tackle or work in a linear process?



    ------------------------------
    Nicholas Johnson
    Physical Scientist
    USACE
    Kiln MS
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 09-20-2024 05:28 PM

    Will need to slide this one week to the right. Looking at Oct 3rd 10am. Will post early next week the meeting info here but not on LinkedIn. I'll also work with Xan to grab some regular scheduled group meeting time to chat items outside of this effort and will hope a few more who have expressed interest join from there to support sub-group efforts.

    Ya'll have a great weekend!



    ------------------------------
    Nicholas Johnson
    Physical Scientist
    USACE
    Kiln MS
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 09-27-2024 06:19 PM

    I hope everyone has a great weekend and for anyone in the eye of the passing storm, I hope the best with recovery. 

    I have asked for Oct 3rd at 1300 central for a time slot and will leave that for an hour. As soon as I here confirmation from ASPRS, I'll share the link here in this thread. For those that have raised a hand or who see the community exchanges and would like to join, please do, and we can discuss how to best manage a sub-group on this initial bathy lidar calibration practices call. 



    ------------------------------
    Nicholas Johnson
    Physical Scientist
    USACE
    Kiln MS
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 09-30-2024 04:35 PM

    Topic: Bathy Working Group Meeting - Bathy Lidar Calibrations

    Time: Oct 3, 2024 01:00 PM Central Time (US and Canada)

     

    Join Zoom Meeting

    https://us02web.zoom.us/j/87955331211?pwd=bVLMGEKCM0ZZm4oHQFZ4afpbySEM7x.1

     

    Meeting ID: 879 5533 1211

    Passcode: 020440



    ------------------------------
    Nicholas Johnson
    Physical Scientist
    USACE
    Kiln MS
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 09-30-2024 11:04 AM
    Edited by Edward Wallis Carter, IV 09-30-2024 11:04 AM

      Wishing everyone speedy recovery and quick power hookup who were impacted by the storm. 



    ------------------------------
    Edward Carter
    St. Johns River Water Managerment District
    Palatka FL
    (352) 514-7665
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 10-10-2024 04:44 PM

    Oct 17th 1300 central is taken in the ASPRS Calendar. I'll put in for 9am central. Between the JALBTCX workshop and some storm related work, I will not have new info to present but would love to continue our talk from where we left off. When and where do we need bathy related calibration values for different project and sensors. I'll try to have some back bone of a document with high level bullets there for us at least to throw down notes.



    ------------------------------
    Nicholas Johnson
    Physical Scientist
    USACE
    Kiln MS
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 10-17-2024 11:44 AM

    Hey Everyone! Apologies for the confusion with the meeting and then the late calendar add. For those that have responded in this discussion as interested in a calibration guideline / reporting best practice for our wiki, or for those that do want to join, how does every other Thur 10am central starting on Oct 31st sound? 
    I need this meeting setup by ASPRS then I can add an event to our community calendar. I don't mind anyone listening in but for those that wanted to contribute I would like to know if 10am on Thurs works for a majority of us. 
    Would anyone be interested in helping me with these should I not be able to attend any one meeting?



    ------------------------------
    Nicholas Johnson
    Physical Scientist
    USACE
    Kiln MS
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 10-17-2024 12:51 PM

    Nick:  Every other Thursday at 1000h ET works for me ...
    --
    Al Karlin, Ph.D., CMS-L, GISP
         Vice President - ASPRS
         Chair Geosciences Division
             Florida Academy of Sciences
                     &
         Dewberry Engineers
         Tampa, FL





  • 20.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 10-17-2024 03:26 PM

    AL,

    I'm good with that time as well, 10 ET. I've reached out to Yuki to see if I could manage a sub-group via my own outlook or if I've misunderstood some of the group/event management functions with these community pages.



    ------------------------------
    Nicholas Johnson
    Physical Scientist
    USACE
    Kiln MS
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 10-17-2024 03:32 PM
    Edited by Mr. Nicholas Johnson 10-17-2024 03:33 PM

    All,

    Until we meet, maybe have a little fun and add comments to the "CHAT GPT - Bathy Lidar Cal - fun" google doc at ,https://docs.google.com/document/d/18dbL5pwOyUtwZWt2kpUlu0-uDwxU7xUHXH3KRN9lOh8/edit?usp=drive_link, which you can get to through our community pages via the library tab. I shared some other spec and cal documents that are good resources in the same directory. I asked CHAT GPT for what a bathy lidar calibration should include and was surprised. I did ask again if it should have a few items I thought should be and then slapped those two answers together. 

    See who ever can join on Oct 31st, time pending. I'll try to have the info posted at least a week a ahead of time.



    ------------------------------
    Nicholas Johnson
    Physical Scientist
    USACE
    Kiln MS
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 10-26-2024 12:25 PM

    SEE YALL Thursday!!!

    Topic: Bathy Sub Working Group - Calibration Best Practice Effort Meeting

    Time: Oct 31, 2024 10:00 AM Central Time (US and Canada)

            Every 14 days, until Feb 20, 2025, 9 occurrence(s)

    Please download and import the following iCalendar (.ics) files to your calendar system.

    Daily: https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/tZEvcOqvpjojG9yxVAD52iJHvgobaIY0lPKq/ics?icsToken=98tyKuGtrDwpHdyUuRiPRpwMAI_Cb-3xiH5EjfpEhCnEJ3UBayneIOVNMLNWKYjc&meetingMasterEventId=fs175XdoSv-FYp0cJzAeZg

    Join Zoom Meeting

    https://us02web.zoom.us/j/85273781918?pwd=0jNc46wBrPh4m25xTk2hsseo13G5kh.1

    Meeting ID: 852 7378 1918

    Passcode: 978137

    ---

    One tap mobile

    +16465588656,,85273781918# US (New York)

    +16469313860,,85273781918# US

    ---

    Dial by your location

    • +1 646 558 8656 US (New York)

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    Meeting ID: 852 7378 1918



    ------------------------------
    Nicholas Johnson
    Physical Scientist
    USACE
    Kiln MS
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 10-31-2024 04:05 PM
    Edited by Mr. Nicholas Johnson 11-12-2024 11:47 AM

    A smaller group today but coming off an awesome week at the JALBTCX workshop, not that bad. 

    I've asked those that attended to check out Lockhart_TPU and ChatGPT docs through our resources-drive link under the Examples-Specs directory for our next call to discuss accuracy and precision metrics and calibration practices. Feel free to mark up the ChatGPT Calibration Report example.

    I did mention index of refraction for the calibration as well as the processing reports as something I'd like to be more open. James Dietrich shared some resources and I've added Parrish's OSU resource as well. I would need Teledyne's permission to share the specific value so for now, JALBTCX's reports will just state the category selected " saline".

    https://github.com/geojames/global_refractive_index_532" href="https://github.com/geojames/global_refractive_index_532" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank" class="fui-Link ___1q1shib f2hkw1w f3rmtva f1ewtqcl fyind8e f1k6fduh f1w7gpdv fk6fouc fjoy568 figsok6 f1s184ao f1mk8lai fnbmjn9 f1o700av f13mvf36 f1cmlufx f9n3di6 f1ids18y f1tx3yz7 f1deo86v f1eh06m1 f1iescvh fhgqx19 f1olyrje f1p93eir f1nev41a f1h8hb77 f1lqvz6u f10aw75t fsle3fq f17ae5zn" title="https://github.com/geojames/global_refractive_index_532">https://github.com/geojames/global_refractive_index_532

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUqlqw-NWk0" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUqlqw-NWk0" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank" class="fui-Link ___1q1shib f2hkw1w f3rmtva f1ewtqcl fyind8e f1k6fduh f1w7gpdv fk6fouc fjoy568 figsok6 f1s184ao f1mk8lai fnbmjn9 f1o700av f13mvf36 f1cmlufx f9n3di6 f1ids18y f1tx3yz7 f1deo86v f1eh06m1 f1iescvh fhgqx19 f1olyrje f1p93eir f1nev41a f1h8hb77 f1lqvz6u f10aw75t fsle3fq f17ae5zn" title="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuqlqw-nwk0">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUqlqw-NWk0

    https://research.engr.oregonstate.edu/parrish/index-refraction-seawater-and-freshwater-function-wavelength-and-temperature" href="https://research.engr.oregonstate.edu/parrish/index-refraction-seawater-and-freshwater-function-wavelength-and-temperature" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank" class="fui-Link ___1q1shib f2hkw1w f3rmtva f1ewtqcl fyind8e f1k6fduh f1w7gpdv fk6fouc fjoy568 figsok6 f1s184ao f1mk8lai fnbmjn9 f1o700av f13mvf36 f1cmlufx f9n3di6 f1ids18y f1tx3yz7 f1deo86v f1eh06m1 f1iescvh fhgqx19 f1olyrje f1p93eir f1nev41a f1h8hb77 f1lqvz6u f10aw75t fsle3fq f17ae5zn" title="https://research.engr.oregonstate.edu/parrish/index-refraction-seawater-and-freshwater-function-wavelength-and-temperature">https://research.engr.oregonstate.edu/parrish/index-refraction-seawater-and-freshwater-function-wavelength-and-temperature

    Our next meeting will be in two weeks, same time. I apologize for the Event time mix up as it is to be at 10am central.

    Topic: Bathy Sub Working Group - Calibration Best Practice Effort Meeting

    When:  Nov 14, 2024 from 10:00 AM to 11:00 AM (CT)

            Every 14 days, until Feb 20, 2025, 9 occurrence(s)

    Please download and import the following iCalendar (.ics) files to your calendar system.

    Daily: https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/tZEvcOqvpjojG9yxVAD52iJHvgobaIY0lPKq/ics?icsToken=98tyKuGtrDwpHdyUuRiPRpwMAI_Cb-3xiH5EjfpEhCnEJ3UBayneIOVNMLNWKYjc&meetingMasterEventId=fs175XdoSv-FYp0cJzAeZg

    Join Zoom Meeting

    https://us02web.zoom.us/j/85273781918?pwd=0jNc46wBrPh4m25xTk2hsseo13G5kh.1

    Meeting ID: 852 7378 1918

    Passcode: 978137

    ---

    One tap mobile

    +16465588656,,85273781918# US (New York)

    +16469313860,,85273781918# US



    ------------------------------
    Nicholas Johnson
    Physical Scientist
    USACE
    Kiln MS
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 11-12-2024 11:49 AM

    I corrected my last comment as I copied the event details from my email with ASPRS when setting up a reoccurring meeting which had the date from our last meeting. Next calibration conversation will be When:  Nov 14, 2024 from 10:00 AM to 11:00 AM (CT). See our events page.



    ------------------------------
    Nicholas Johnson
    Physical Scientist
    USACE
    Kiln MS
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: Vertical Uncertainty-Accuracy, Calibration to processing to validation - sub-group

    Posted 12-09-2024 04:21 PM

    Thanksgiving week dropped our last meeting and the next meeting for every other week after this Thurs is Dec 26th so I'll drop that as well.  See yall Thur 12/12 at 10am Central. Meeting links will be the same as the postings above but I'll share again below. I was about to add an event for this week and as most might have reminders set to a weekly email, I'll share the info via LinkedIn to catch those who might miss the post. Feel free to save the reoccurring meeting in your own calender and I'll let ya'll know if we don't have a host or if we drop the call.

    Topic: Bathy Sub Working Group - Calibration Best Practice Effort Meeting

    When:  Dec 12, 2024 from 10:00 AM to 11:00 AM (CT)

            Every 14 days, until Feb 20, 2025, 9 occurrence(s)

    Please download and import the following iCalendar (.ics) files to your calendar system.

    Daily: https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/tZEvcOqvpjojG9yxVAD52iJHvgobaIY0lPKq/ics?icsToken=98tyKuGtrDwpHdyUuRiPRpwMAI_Cb-3xiH5EjfpEhCnEJ3UBayneIOVNMLNWKYjc&meetingMasterEventId=fs175XdoSv-FYp0cJzAeZg

    Join Zoom Meeting

    https://us02web.zoom.us/j/85273781918?pwd=0jNc46wBrPh4m25xTk2hsseo13G5kh.1

    Meeting ID: 852 7378 1918

    Passcode: 978137



    ------------------------------
    Nicholas Johnson
    Physical Scientist
    USACE
    Kiln MS
    ------------------------------